Minor Hockey Talks - Hockey Forum

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:12 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:25 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:18 am The reason OHF is worried is Klevr threat of expansion into U10 and beyond. Some people wont agree based on the posts earlier..but hey look at facts. OHF is aware of what has happened in Alberta. Look at HSL: https://hockeysuperleague.ca/content/ab ... per-league

This is a defense move. Hope it comes early enough to influence the 25-26 season.

Correct, up until this started happening the OHF, OMHA and others have refused to listen to their customers. They continued to abuse their power and protect bad organizations/coaches all in the name of fairness. It's BS and I am so glad that these private leagues are pushing the change. I just hope they can act quickly enough so that the whole thing doesn't go private and nobody can afford to play. The elite and rich won't have to worry, they will be taken care of, it will be the hard-working families in the house and local leagues that will pay the price.

In what world do you live in that its not already expensive?

If KSL is your bench mark, you need to look at how much more you are getting for your money before you complain. Its been done before on here. But "per ice time" its essentially the same price.

KSL lumps in Jersey fees, Bags, track suits, etc into the costs. OMHA, at least the centres I know do it separate. $2400 for your fees, plus $500 for team stuff. plus, if your team does a tournament on top of your normal fees, thats usually on top of it. etc.

I am not sayings its the exact same price...but its a lot closer than you think. (Yes, I am aware there are a few KSL teams that are stupidly priced) but typically thats because you paying for a non-parent coach. thats your decision. (Toronto Stars for example)

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:22 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:12 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:25 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:18 am The reason OHF is worried is Klevr threat of expansion into U10 and beyond. Some people wont agree based on the posts earlier..but hey look at facts. OHF is aware of what has happened in Alberta. Look at HSL: https://hockeysuperleague.ca/content/ab ... per-league

This is a defense move. Hope it comes early enough to influence the 25-26 season.

Correct, up until this started happening the OHF, OMHA and others have refused to listen to their customers. They continued to abuse their power and protect bad organizations/coaches all in the name of fairness. It's BS and I am so glad that these private leagues are pushing the change. I just hope they can act quickly enough so that the whole thing doesn't go private and nobody can afford to play. The elite and rich won't have to worry, they will be taken care of, it will be the hard-working families in the house and local leagues that will pay the price.

In what world do you live in that its not already expensive?

If KSL is your bench mark, you need to look at how much more you are getting for your money before you complain. Its been done before on here. But "per ice time" its essentially the same price.

KSL lumps in Jersey fees, Bags, track suits, etc into the costs. OMHA, at least the centres I know do it separate. $2400 for your fees, plus $500 for team stuff. plus, if your team does a tournament on top of your normal fees, thats usually on top of it. etc.

I am not sayings its the exact same price...but its a lot closer than you think. (Yes, I am aware there are a few KSL teams that are stupidly priced) but typically thats because you paying for a non-parent coach. thats your decision. (Toronto Stars for example)

Just wait until a corporation holds the monopoly. Then you will see expensive. These leagues have to be competitive in all aspects right now, but if KSL becomes to only game in town your going to see things change real quick

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:05 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:46 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:16 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 9:52 am

Guest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:13 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:55 pm
So let's say you have an 8 team league, and all the besr players go to 2 teams. You don't have parity and youbhave no rules to address this. This means that 85% of the games for the top 2 teams, the end result is essentially predetermined.

This isn't good for fun, yes fun is the most important thing, for player development, and it will create an endless amount of politics, nefarious actions of coaches and parents(aka paying coaches for spots), pissed off players and parents, which all leads to a terrible league and it's inevitable demise.

How's that for a run on sentence.

This is the outcome. HC can't manage this as they have different rules for different areas of the country. How will you address this?

How will you address what Hac is good at, which is standards, and plans for development. It's fine if you don't like theirs, the problem is you don't have another viable option.

I think you're creating a problem that won't exist. And that will affect a very small percentage of the people if it does. There's a lot of excellent hockey people out there that will run amazing programs. We have that now. At the highest levels we have people also trying to create super teams right now. Out of the 500 000 kids playing hockey only a few hundred are playing AAA. Most of us just want to have our kids playing at an appropriate level, be challenged and have fun.

No this happens all the time! Take the GTHL AAA division as an example. It's esse tally a two tier league. You have the top 4 teams who take all the best players. For the most part they are substantially better than the bottom 8. If a player develops on a bottom 8 team he doesn't stay there, he moves up to a top 4 team. Then you add that outside players come in and hand pick the team they want to play on.

This also happens at every level below. Don't underestimate what parents will do to stack trams so that they can win more.

It's a massive issue, and the very reason why HC tries to have closed borders. Their reason is sound- avoid stacked teams- but their method/ plan and application is terrible.

By failing to acknowledge that this will happen, and that there is a problem, you're merely spring hockey.

Youbhave an opportunity to truly make change, a positive change, but you need to have the ability to see the issues, identify what HC does that doesn't work, come up with alternatives, get feedback to see if there are barriers from communities in different locations, seek input from knowledgeable people with experience, design a long term plan, and implement it.

Lots to do to succeed at this.

I think an easy solution is to copy the European soccer model. The top team moves up a division bottom down one, Have a Champions League for the best of the best that runs in parallel to regular season. That would create lots of incentive to run a good program.

I friggin love the promotion/relegation idea!!!!

I like it too, but I'd argue it would likely make things worse.

The top teams would forever stay the top teams because the best players aren't going to go to a shit team to "try to get them into the league above"

also, these teams are one year at a time. How do you track this one year to the next?

This scenario: "U10 Minor Hockey Talks assholes" are AAA this year, they suck balls, so they get moved to AA...

Does U10 move down to AA or does U11?

How do you decide where U10 starts given there is no U9 for them?

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:57 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:22 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:12 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:25 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:18 am The reason OHF is worried is Klevr threat of expansion into U10 and beyond. Some people wont agree based on the posts earlier..but hey look at facts. OHF is aware of what has happened in Alberta. Look at HSL: https://hockeysuperleague.ca/content/ab ... per-league

This is a defense move. Hope it comes early enough to influence the 25-26 season.

Correct, up until this started happening the OHF, OMHA and others have refused to listen to their customers. They continued to abuse their power and protect bad organizations/coaches all in the name of fairness. It's BS and I am so glad that these private leagues are pushing the change. I just hope they can act quickly enough so that the whole thing doesn't go private and nobody can afford to play. The elite and rich won't have to worry, they will be taken care of, it will be the hard-working families in the house and local leagues that will pay the price.

In what world do you live in that its not already expensive?

If KSL is your bench mark, you need to look at how much more you are getting for your money before you complain. Its been done before on here. But "per ice time" its essentially the same price.

KSL lumps in Jersey fees, Bags, track suits, etc into the costs. OMHA, at least the centres I know do it separate. $2400 for your fees, plus $500 for team stuff. plus, if your team does a tournament on top of your normal fees, thats usually on top of it. etc.

I am not sayings its the exact same price...but its a lot closer than you think. (Yes, I am aware there are a few KSL teams that are stupidly priced) but typically thats because you paying for a non-parent coach. thats your decision. (Toronto Stars for example)

Just wait until a corporation holds the monopoly. Then you will see expensive. These leagues have to be competitive in all aspects right now, but if KSL becomes to only game in town your going to see things change real quick

KSL is already dying that’s why you have desperate losers on here trying to talk it up. It’s a complete joke..

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:59 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:05 pm

I like it too, but I'd argue it would likely make things worse.

The top teams would forever stay the top teams because the best players aren't going to go to a shit team to "try to get them into the league above"

also, these teams are one year at a time. How do you track this one year to the next?

This scenario: "U10 Minor Hockey Talks assholes" are AAA this year, they suck balls, so they get moved to AA...

Does U10 move down to AA or does U11?

How do you decide where U10 starts given there is no U9 for them?

You nailed it with this analysis

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:13 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:00 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:47 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:39 am These are the regular season champions in the GTHL last year:

U10 - Vaughan
U11 - Marlboros
U12 - North York Rangers
U13 - JRC
U14 - Markham
U15 - Don Mills
U16 - Vaughan

It’s FAR from being a two team league. If anything, this proves that open borders WORKS, since anyone inside the GTHL boundary can play for any team. It creates competition and parity.

Not what was meant.... not the SAME TWO TEAMS at every division.

Just that there are typically TWO TEAMS (different ones) that run away with the division every year.

I'm not too familiar with the GTHL, but did a quick look at last year's standings, Most divisions that I checked have 4-5 teams with more than 20 wins and 4-5 teams with less than 10 wins. If you look at OMHA is about the same. There are better teams and there are worse teams. It's just the way it is. Almost any division in any league is going to have a team that dominates and a team that struggles. NHL down to house leagues. It's no reason to take away people's freedoms.

That is my original point.

there is already unbalanced parity in hockey with the controls that HC has tried to impose. Therefore, you are not risking anything by allowing open boarders.

Open it up so that kids in bad situations can get out.

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 1:26 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:59 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 12:05 pm

I like it too, but I'd argue it would likely make things worse.

The top teams would forever stay the top teams because the best players aren't going to go to a shit team to "try to get them into the league above"

also, these teams are one year at a time. How do you track this one year to the next?

This scenario: "U10 Minor Hockey Talks assholes" are AAA this year, they suck balls, so they get moved to AA...

Does U10 move down to AA or does U11?

How do you decide where U10 starts given there is no U9 for them?

You nailed it with this analysis

I think you might be overthinking it. the whole idea would be to get teams to the elite division, those few teams would be basically removed from the rest of us. At AAA you might have to play them a couple of times, but they would have their own Champions League and playoff, look how soccer works over in Europe. Imagine how much better the rest of the system will be when you remove the 30-40 families that have unlimited budgets and put them all on a couple of teams.

Everything would be tied to birth years. Teams go into their first year and sign up for a division, and guess where they fit(think summer hockey). You could schedule half the season, After the first half you could re-align or request to be moved. Then finish out the season. Maybe in the first couple of years you move 3 or 4 teams up and down a division. By u12 to u13 things would sort itself out.

Also, don't forget there will still be oversight and a governing body keeping things in check, they could make slight adjustments as time goes on.