Minor Hockey Talks - Hockey Forum

Guest wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:32 am

Guest wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:19 am

Guest wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:30 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:57 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:23 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:02 pm

Ah "the road to the Telus Cup" not the actual Cup. Oh no it's such a difference. This is a thread on a website, just to be precise champ. Yup, take out the minimums for first year players and a big chance LESS of them play. Does that hurt your feelings? The 07 minimum, is what is hurting Kemptville champ.

Good luck

Stop blaming the first year players, 8 years ago HEO minor screwed them. They are out of the league next year what will you complain about then.

Defensive again and protecting young players who have coddled too long. Not many of these players have what it takes to play beyond minor hockey. They can't compete against players in a watered down division, in fact they're getting spanked. They're getting spanked by older "less talented" players it seems. ah well


You do you

There are no 2006s 'better' than a 2007 that didn't make a team. Some of the 2006s chirping about minimum 2007s were not drafted and cut by a team before they landed on a weak team or played very limited minutes.

So you're saying that 06's who made teams aren's as good as 07's who got cut!?!?!

The FACT that a minimum # of 07's "forced" onto teams, thereby watering down the league, this infuriates you. Oh, and if there were not limitations on 05's, even less 07's would make the U18AAA.

but you do you

Who started the league and why?
The CCHL (KA) went to HEO Minor with a solution to a problem that did not exist. HEO minor never liked AAA because they thought it eliminated to many players from top end hockey. 5 teams at AAA not 10 teams at AA.
This was Minor Council getting revenge on the ODHA BOD (at the time) now HEO and changing a set up they did not like.
The U18 team set up was a compromise to allow the CCHL to run the U18 league and get it out of AAA.
The quotas have never worked, they never allowed the best team to be selected.
Why did HEO Minor and the CCHL want quotas?
The first-year quota was to ensure that most if not all 85 Bantam AAA players coming into the league would continue in AAA.
The 3rd year quota of 3 players was put in by the CCHL because the Jr B Commissioner at the time ended the use of 4 21-year-olds at Jr B so he needed 17-year-olds to replace those missing 21-year-olds.
The second-year player got was left.

People need to focus your anger on the right people. It is never the kids. It is always the adults that screw things up. The kids just want to play.


AngryHockeyGuy

Guest wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:03 am I can see rhe logic in what you posted, amd agree that many of the decisions were all based on politics, and trying to keep different interest groups happy. The system we just got rid of did the following:

-Jr. A/CCHL, they want money
-Jr. B, to a certain extent want money and don't want their product to suffer by giving another option for third year eligible U18AAA players
-second year players/parents also protected by limiting the number of 3rd players allowed. A bit young for Jr. B, so want protection to play U18AAA.
-first year players/parents, afraid of dropping out of AAA due to playing against older players despite having more teams
Despite their bravado of how good they "think" their kids are, they wanted a minimum number of 1st year roster spots to bail them out.
-3rd year players, the reality of inviting their number to a max of 3 per team, barely any chose U18AAA. More of them chose Jr. B

Result of the above-league watered down, not by 2 many teams, but by having imitations on what players could be selected. Not all the best players made teams. Sorry 1st year mom and dad, many of your kids don't make it. This had too many political fingers in the pot.

I do agree that 1st year players should have exposure, but what they lost in "tournamwnts" wasn't much as what they gained in ease of scouting for league games. The top 1st years also gained by playing worh and against older players, thereby advancing their development. Also costs were MUCH cheaper, despite the CCHL take, than legacy AAA.

The goal SHOILD be about player development and advancement at this stage of the game. That is what is lost. CCHL, don't develop local players "nearly" as much as what they should. They should have a minimum number of local players make their teams. You could argue that this makes them worse, perhaps, but they would make more money as more LOCAL people would come see them play. Parents of younger AAA players, on one hand don't listen to them, bit on the other you need to convince them to be part of this. In my.mind it all comes down to results of TOYAL number of players promoted to something after the CCHL. to get there, DEVELOP players over time! Yes take outside players at the same time, bit invest in LOCAL player development first!

The BCHL, and most likely CCHL, want to go rogue so they can have NO RESTRICTIONS on where they can take players from. They want to WIN THE RACE TO THE NCAA. The thing is they are taking the quick and easy route which is MORE RECRUITING! How about set the same goals, but work harder and smarter?!?! Start with a DEVELOPMENT PLAN from the young ages right to the CCHL! That is what is missing in all this. We are taking just ONE aspect of being better, increase the size of your talent pool. They are neglecting the obvious, make what you have, local players, better.

So frustrating to watch as these people work so hard to make their life easier, but sacrifice the people under their noses. I would like to say BE AN INNOVATOR, but player development isn't new. It can be improved, needs buy in, and actually needs to be implemented. Every HC coach MUST take HC ourselves where teach long term player development, but then after they leave rhe course they do whatever they want! Insane, why bother taking the courses. Be innovative by creating a long term, progressive development plan across all ages and levels of play. Make it mandatory that this plan be followed. Or continue to spin your wheels, making political decisions, have parents upset Nandi going their own way, amd most of all FAIL to serve the kids to the best of your ability.

IMHO

Guest wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:30 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:57 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:23 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:02 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:37 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:41 pm


Comprehension is still a struggle for you. The OTHER teams have many 05's. Read that again.

Puts in perspective how highly skilled 07's can't compete against older, stronger and bigger players.

My comprehension would be much better if you had better command of the english language. Kemptville is not at the Telus Cup. They are at the Ontario U18 regionals on the road to the Telus Cup. Winner of this events gets to go to Telus Cup. Our U18 league is what this website is about. Our teams and how they are set up is on the CCHL. Where are the 05's playing? Why not U18? Who's fault is that? People's argument about the 07's not being good enough to compete holds no water. The 07's were the driving force on both the teams in the finals, both teams a lot of 07's.

Ah "the road to the Telus Cup" not the actual Cup. Oh no it's such a difference. This is a thread on a website, just to be precise champ. Yup, take out the minimums for first year players and a big chance LESS of them play. Does that hurt your feelings? The 07 minimum, is what is hurting Kemptville champ.

Good luck

Stop blaming the first year players, 8 years ago HEO minor screwed them. They are out of the league next year what will you complain about then.

Defensive again and protecting young players who have coddled too long. Not many of these players have what it takes to play beyond minor hockey. They can't compete against players in a watered down division, in fact they're getting spanked. They're getting spanked by older "less talented" players it seems. ah well


You do you

There are no 2006s 'better' than a 2007 that didn't make a team. Some of the 2006s chirping about minimum 2007s were not drafted and cut by a team before they landed on a weak team or played very limited minutes.

Guest wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:30 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:57 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:23 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:02 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:37 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:41 pm


Comprehension is still a struggle for you. The OTHER teams have many 05's. Read that again.

Puts in perspective how highly skilled 07's can't compete against older, stronger and bigger players.

My comprehension would be much better if you had better command of the english language. Kemptville is not at the Telus Cup. They are at the Ontario U18 regionals on the road to the Telus Cup. Winner of this events gets to go to Telus Cup. Our U18 league is what this website is about. Our teams and how they are set up is on the CCHL. Where are the 05's playing? Why not U18? Who's fault is that? People's argument about the 07's not being good enough to compete holds no water. The 07's were the driving force on both the teams in the finals, both teams a lot of 07's.

Ah "the road to the Telus Cup" not the actual Cup. Oh no it's such a difference. This is a thread on a website, just to be precise champ. Yup, take out the minimums for first year players and a big chance LESS of them play. Does that hurt your feelings? The 07 minimum, is what is hurting Kemptville champ.

Good luck

Stop blaming the first year players, 8 years ago HEO minor screwed them. They are out of the league next year what will you complain about then.

Defensive again and protecting young players who have coddled too long. Not many of these players have what it takes to play beyond minor hockey. They can't compete against players in a watered down division, in fact they're getting spanked. They're getting spanked by older "less talented" players it seems. ah well


You do you

There are no 2006s 'better' than a 2007 that didn't make a team. Some of the 2006s chirping about minimum 2007s were not drafted and cut by a team before they landed on a weak team or played very limited minutes.

Guest wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:19 am

Guest wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:30 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:57 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:23 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:02 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:37 pm
My comprehension would be much better if you had better command of the english language. Kemptville is not at the Telus Cup. They are at the Ontario U18 regionals on the road to the Telus Cup. Winner of this events gets to go to Telus Cup. Our U18 league is what this website is about. Our teams and how they are set up is on the CCHL. Where are the 05's playing? Why not U18? Who's fault is that? People's argument about the 07's not being good enough to compete holds no water. The 07's were the driving force on both the teams in the finals, both teams a lot of 07's.

Ah "the road to the Telus Cup" not the actual Cup. Oh no it's such a difference. This is a thread on a website, just to be precise champ. Yup, take out the minimums for first year players and a big chance LESS of them play. Does that hurt your feelings? The 07 minimum, is what is hurting Kemptville champ.

Good luck

Stop blaming the first year players, 8 years ago HEO minor screwed them. They are out of the league next year what will you complain about then.

Defensive again and protecting young players who have coddled too long. Not many of these players have what it takes to play beyond minor hockey. They can't compete against players in a watered down division, in fact they're getting spanked. They're getting spanked by older "less talented" players it seems. ah well


You do you

There are no 2006s 'better' than a 2007 that didn't make a team. Some of the 2006s chirping about minimum 2007s were not drafted and cut by a team before they landed on a weak team or played very limited minutes.

So you're saying that 06's who made teams aren's as good as 07's who got cut!?!?!

The FACT that a minimum # of 07's "forced" onto teams, thereby watering down the league, this infuriates you. Oh, and if there were not limitations on 05's, even less 07's would make the U18AAA.

but you do you

Guest wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:20 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:19 am

Guest wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:30 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:57 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:23 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:02 pm

Ah "the road to the Telus Cup" not the actual Cup. Oh no it's such a difference. This is a thread on a website, just to be precise champ. Yup, take out the minimums for first year players and a big chance LESS of them play. Does that hurt your feelings? The 07 minimum, is what is hurting Kemptville champ.

Good luck

Stop blaming the first year players, 8 years ago HEO minor screwed them. They are out of the league next year what will you complain about then.

Defensive again and protecting young players who have coddled too long. Not many of these players have what it takes to play beyond minor hockey. They can't compete against players in a watered down division, in fact they're getting spanked. They're getting spanked by older "less talented" players it seems. ah well


You do you

There are no 2006s 'better' than a 2007 that didn't make a team. Some of the 2006s chirping about minimum 2007s were not drafted and cut by a team before they landed on a weak team or played very limited minutes.

So you're saying that 06's who made teams aren's as good as 07's who got cut!?!?!

The FACT that a minimum # of 07's "forced" onto teams, thereby watering down the league, this infuriates you. Oh, and if there were not limitations on 05's, even less 07's would make the U18AAA.

but you do you

No I'm pretty sure he's an 07 dad who is trying to convince himself that his kid (who probably shouldn't be on a u18AAA team this year) made it in merit and not because of the minimum requirements. His kid is literally better than every single 2006 who didn't make a u18aaa team this year.

Guest wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:29 pm I shouldn't have used "2" in too many teams. The reference I was making was towards the comments that 12 teams is too many, and therefore the league is watered down. I do agree with you that top players will leave each year, but I know, as a dad of an 06, that give or take a small few, approx. 10 players left for Major Jr. or Jr. A all together. As for Jr. B, I know of one, he was excellent, but nobody else of consequence left. This is for 06's going into their second year. This was a strong year too, so let's say 12 players left-not much.

When you factor in now that you have essentially 2 years worth of AAA players, minus 12, that's a big talent pool to boost the amount of teams. Sure, there are top AA players, late bloomers, who make up the rest. People have to remember that some AA players chose not to play AAA when younger. Others grew late, or developed late, or played multiple sports and didn't concentrate on hockey until later, and have gotten much better. Then you have the reality that at this age, physical development plays a MASSIVE role in impact on the ice. I know some kids in their second year that put on 20-30 lbs! That's huge! I see first players, very skilled, but still very small and light on their skates. They may have more skill than an older player, but if that player is much bigger, heavier, stronger and more experienced, he can shut down and over come the first year skilled player. Of course, IF that younger player also grows and develops in a year two, they will catch up. Some do, some don't. A kid who was big at one point 5'7" and 155 lbs in U14, but hasn't grown any more, he has very little impact any longer, despite playing AAA all his life.

Long term development doesn't stop at U13, U15, etc., it keeps going. Everyone's path is a little different. The mindset that too many people still have is the oldschool mentality of get to AAA asap, and stay there. Parents of these players are of the mindset that their kid will keep playing AAA, that the gap between their kid and a AA kid will "always" be too big for the AA kid to overcome, and that their kid will keep moving forward. That's not how player development works. Further, after minor hockey, very few move on to the next level. I don't think most parents of AAA players understand that. They think that their is going to Junior hockey! They forget that at some point, they AAA kid needs to widen his competitive group and play against older kids. Look out, reality comes fast and hard.

Keeping this on topic of how many teams and players is the right number, I believe the U18AAA format we just had was fine. The 1st year players had to finally compete against older kids. "Most" didn't have near the same success they used to have. Parents of these kids want them to compete against kids ONLY their age group, "not" because the talent is more concentrated, but because they can perform better against kids their own age. IMHO the parents are afraid to have it open up. As I said, for the 06 group 10-12 players moved on-from the ENTIRE age group! The rest came back, are they done now?

I think that we could close the gap between top and bottom players at ALL levels, through a well thought out and implemented "development plan" over time. What do players work on to get better in the offseason? It's not how to perform a PP or PK better? It's not how to understand a system-well that could change every time the coach changes. It's improving their skating, puck handling skills, combining the two, and then working them into "small area work." They also work on their shot, but let's be honest here there's not much private coaching even for this. They do it on their own or luckily it comes naturally. Work on these aspects starting as young as possible, and then have a "much larger" talent pool of local elite players to chose from!

Or, as we see with the reasoning behind the BCHL and rumoured CCHL moves, open up the geographical area you can pick from, and "recruit" talent from ALL of Canada. This is the administrative route and the easy road.

From what I have seen over the past decade is the explosion of private options for player development. This has closed the gap and allowed players to continue to develop. The use of private development options has provided more players at the top end.

Other advantages to the previous U18AAA format:

-lower costs-legacy AAA incurs much of it's costs by away tournaments. This will cost families easily $10 K, as opposed to $6500 for U18AAA
-harder to scout, therefore less scouting. Playing most games at one of the two Sensplexs made it easy and time efficient for scouts. This isn't the case for legacy AAA. Their league game won't be scouted much, leading to the over dependence on tournaments, further increasing costs.