OHF Opening borders??

Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 5:49 pm
Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 5:38 pm
Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 11:25 am
Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:18 am The reason OHF is worried is Klevr threat of expansion into U10 and beyond. Some people wont agree based on the posts earlier..but hey look at facts. OHF is aware of what has happened in Alberta. Look at HSL: https://hockeysuperleague.ca/content/ab ... per-league

This is a defense move. Hope it comes early enough to influence the 25-26 season.
Correct, up until this started happening the OHF, OMHA and others have refused to listen to their customers. They continued to abuse their power and protect bad organizations/coaches all in the name of fairness. It's BS and I am so glad that these private leagues are pushing the change. I just hope they can act quickly enough so that the whole thing doesn't go private and nobody can afford to play. The elite and rich won't have to worry, they will be taken care of, it will be the hard-working families in the house and local leagues that will pay the price.
One big problem with unsanctioned hockey. They can't get ice from the cities.
Unless they start building rinks, they can't run full programs at all ages due to lack of securing ice.

If OMHA teams were to start folding rapidly, thus reducing ice contracts, then the unsanctioned leagues would have a better chance to get more established.
There are enough private rinks scattered around that the unsanctioned leagues are having a much easier time now getting ice than back when they first started.
This is happening, however these rinks are costly, and cost is one of the biggest limiting factors for players joining the game.

One of the factors that a competing alternative to HC needs to keep in mind is cost, especially as compared to other sports, and overall value for money. I can already see that the AAA crowd parents are the ones who want to drive change, but they are short sighted. Youth sports is a pyramid, and the HL level is the base, entry level Rep, then AA and finally AAA. AAA is a very small component to all this, so don't ignore the base and the middle.

Another an alternative to HC should keep in mind is our BIGGEST ASSET we have here in Canada and specifically Ontario....our talented players!! We have the highest concentration of talent anywhere in the world!!! Exploit that! We should be able to make participation cheaper than anywhere else! Lower costs attracts more players. More players means better chances of having more players at each level of play. More players, more teams, more leagues, and then quality and comparable competition...aka games... in a relatively small geographical area! Exploit this!

Where else can they have true AAA quality leagues of a decent size-the GTHL has 12 AAA teams, a little smaller in other areas, and you sleep in your own bed every night. Other areas, specifically US, this level is automatically a travel team! And FAR travel!

We can have tier 2, AA teams, playing in leagues even MORE local! That's good! These leagues are high quality as compared to AA anywhere else, and they will feed players in to AAA. Competition, quality competition, BREEDS better players!

We have the best players, the best resources in terms of rinks, the best private options for coaching outside the team, concentration of talent, motivated players and parents, all we need is a SOLID long term plan that will be cost effective, keep KIDS loving the game for as long as possible, and stay at the top of innovation. HC has the foundation of a solid long term plan, the LTAD model, but lack innovation, implementation and buy in. The solution isn't to throw the baby out with the bath water though, it's to do like USA Hockey and improve on it. No plan, brings us back 2 decades and will end any attempt to be a viable alternative to HC run hockey.
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Why not just delete AAA from GTHL, OMHA, HEO, All for the entire province.

Create 20 teams within its own league, directly governed by OHF, or a OHF created governance body. Those teams can draw from anywhere within the province. Spread the teams into ? zones for league play, then cross zone for playoffs - just like the NHL.

Don't like that. Have HC & OHF pull 100% of the AAA level. Privatize the that Elite level (I mean GTHL org's are already owned) and then those teams choose their approach, and the ones that do well, draw more cash, those that don't fail.

When people stop paying the ORG dies, then everyone can vote with their wallet like they seem to want.

Ontario, not just OMHA has to many AAA teams. Everyone bickers about the AAA rules and balance of teams. Teams are unbalanced not just due to residency requirements, but it is because there is not enough true elite players to fill the teams.

OMHA West = 4 teams
OMHA East = 4 teams
GTHL = 5 teams

Other 7 teams made up from north and Ottawa (in fact move Ottawa out completely to play in Que.)
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 5:49 pm
Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 5:38 pm One big problem with unsanctioned hockey. They can't get ice from the cities.
Unless they start building rinks, they can't run full programs at all ages due to lack of securing ice.

If OMHA teams were to start folding rapidly, thus reducing ice contracts, then the unsanctioned leagues would have a better chance to get more established.
There are enough private rinks scattered around that the unsanctioned leagues are having a much easier time now getting ice than back when they first started.

Correct. But that is only for a few teams, and 2 age groups. Now ramp that up for all age groups, in all communities, there is not that much ice that is not already on first right of refusal to the so called local hockey associations.
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 6:01 pm


HC had a dinosaur mentality towards the management of youth sports, but they are well meaning. That being said their apathy and laisser fair attitude towards working with volunteer based local associations, is pathetic, and we are now left with a mess. Sure there are individual examples of excellent associations and/or coaches, but it's not nearly as good as it could be. Closed centers have literally removed ANY AND ALL MOTIVATION for "anyone" involved to be better. Those involved will deny this, but the proof is there for all to see. The perceived advantage of closed centers is to have 'so called" home grown/grass roots hockey, but inevitably, even at the HL of praise for merely being there, regardless of the quality of work they do. Enough.

Open borders, has it's built in problems such as the formation of all star teams. This is a reality I'm willing to accept for the "possibility" of Associations/coaches, being motivated to provide the best product/service that they can! They should be highly motivated to be the best in the EVERY aspect of youth hockey though, and every level as well. What I fear is the AAA crowd, and wanna be AAA crowd, will merely focus on that level. Let's face it, youth sports is driven by volunteers, and for the most part those volunteers are the parents of the participants. These parents are inevitably focused almost 100% on their own kid's interests. The other reality is that these parents, as seen in my debates with the guy trying to sell KLVR over HC, is that they aren't really experts, have no longer term plan, have zero resources to get more informed, and have little desire to get more informed because they think they already know it all. A true "competing" approach to youth hockey, to actually rival HC, would need to do what volunteer parents can't do.

I'll take soccer as an example. Where I'm at top level soccer clubs have a full time paid "technical director." This is for a regular club team. They also have 2 other full time, highly qualified and experienced in both coaching and playing, employees, who direct the program and are active coaches. They provide specific practice plans to coaches, much like the HC model of LTAD for player development, and club coaches regardless of ability or playing experience MUST follow these plans. They are progressive curriculum based plans, that ALL age groups, and levels of play follow.

Hockey, we have dads, and finally at AAA, depending on the area, get a guy getting a few bucks on the side to run things. He has at best his personal plan, that isn't in any way connect to anyone else's plan in his own association. It's Mickey Mouse in comparison.

A quality alternative would combine choice, with quality coaching, long term and informed plans that are cohesive throughout that association at all ages and levels. The coaches would also be quality communicators with BOTH the players AND parents, and provide a product that people WANT to be part of! This isn't happening now, BUT perhaps and open border system will drive people and motivate them to continued progress to provide the best product we can for our youth.
I agree. Our small organization gets so excited when all our NRP's go to other center tryouts and get cut then has to return to play in their home center. Our center does very little to help develop kids, there is almost no motivation to make them better and if they do it hurts the center because we lose kids to higher levels. The motivation is actually to keep things the same. Over the years our board has been filled with parents of 'Rep' players doing everything in their power to keep our little center at 'Rep' status.

This year we have age categories where we are not offering an LL option because the coach and executive want to field a 'Rep' team. The decision is based on daddy's kid wanting to play on a 'Rep' team but isn't good enough to make it elsewhere. So they trap the 2 or 3 kids that could go elsewhere, and make 2 or 3 kids choose between playing rep or quitting even though they are relatively new to hockey, and the rest of the team is filled with LL kids. If open borders where allowed this problem would fix itself.
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2024 9:03 am
Guest wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 6:01 pm


HC had a dinosaur mentality towards the management of youth sports, but they are well meaning. That being said their apathy and laisser fair attitude towards working with volunteer based local associations, is pathetic, and we are now left with a mess. Sure there are individual examples of excellent associations and/or coaches, but it's not nearly as good as it could be. Closed centers have literally removed ANY AND ALL MOTIVATION for "anyone" involved to be better. Those involved will deny this, but the proof is there for all to see. The perceived advantage of closed centers is to have 'so called" home grown/grass roots hockey, but inevitably, even at the HL of praise for merely being there, regardless of the quality of work they do. Enough.

Open borders, has it's built in problems such as the formation of all star teams. This is a reality I'm willing to accept for the "possibility" of Associations/coaches, being motivated to provide the best product/service that they can! They should be highly motivated to be the best in the EVERY aspect of youth hockey though, and every level as well. What I fear is the AAA crowd, and wanna be AAA crowd, will merely focus on that level. Let's face it, youth sports is driven by volunteers, and for the most part those volunteers are the parents of the participants. These parents are inevitably focused almost 100% on their own kid's interests. The other reality is that these parents, as seen in my debates with the guy trying to sell KLVR over HC, is that they aren't really experts, have no longer term plan, have zero resources to get more informed, and have little desire to get more informed because they think they already know it all. A true "competing" approach to youth hockey, to actually rival HC, would need to do what volunteer parents can't do.

I'll take soccer as an example. Where I'm at top level soccer clubs have a full time paid "technical director." This is for a regular club team. They also have 2 other full time, highly qualified and experienced in both coaching and playing, employees, who direct the program and are active coaches. They provide specific practice plans to coaches, much like the HC model of LTAD for player development, and club coaches regardless of ability or playing experience MUST follow these plans. They are progressive curriculum based plans, that ALL age groups, and levels of play follow.

Hockey, we have dads, and finally at AAA, depending on the area, get a guy getting a few bucks on the side to run things. He has at best his personal plan, that isn't in any way connect to anyone else's plan in his own association. It's Mickey Mouse in comparison.

A quality alternative would combine choice, with quality coaching, long term and informed plans that are cohesive throughout that association at all ages and levels. The coaches would also be quality communicators with BOTH the players AND parents, and provide a product that people WANT to be part of! This isn't happening now, BUT perhaps and open border system will drive people and motivate them to continued progress to provide the best product we can for our youth.
I agree. Our small organization gets so excited when all our NRP's go to other center tryouts and get cut then has to return to play in their home center. Our center does very little to help develop kids, there is almost no motivation to make them better and if they do it hurts the center because we lose kids to higher levels. The motivation is actually to keep things the same. Over the years our board has been filled with parents of 'Rep' players doing everything in their power to keep our little center at 'Rep' status.

This year we have age categories where we are not offering an LL option because the coach and executive want to field a 'Rep' team. The decision is based on daddy's kid wanting to play on a 'Rep' team but isn't good enough to make it elsewhere. So they trap the 2 or 3 kids that could go elsewhere, and make 2 or 3 kids choose between playing rep or quitting even though they are relatively new to hockey, and the rest of the team is filled with LL kids. If open borders where allowed this problem would fix itself.
Exactly, AA coaches hoping kids get cut from AAA, A coaches hoping kids get cut from AA, all the way down the line. It's a backwards way of thinking. If kids could move freely, families would be looking at coaches/orgs that move kids on to the next level. It's the whole reason we have several levels of hockey. You work hard, develop then you move on. That should be celebrated, not the other way around.
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

The notion that opening borders would lead to an overwhelming number of super teams is simply not true. Every age group already has at least two dominant teams. I remember in the 2012 loop, the NYR had players from Niagara Falls and beyond—they had nine kids from outside of Toronto alone. While other associations may struggle initially, they will be forced to revamp their long-term strategies and focus on incorporating quality coaching, rather than relying on parent coaches. Once that shift happens, you'll see a more competitive and balanced playing field emerge. The GTHL is the best place to play because coaches are constantly competing for players, meaning they have to create top-tier programs to attract families. In contrast, OMHA associations have been spoiled, which is why you often hear complaints about subpar programs and a lack of player development. Opening borders would ultimately raise the standard across the board.
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

The super team winning isn't the root of the issue. OMHA is broad areas, top tier players are willing to travel and play somewhere else, GREAT.
Eventually a local center fields a team with 0 local players on it, and all the local players will be making the teams in all the adjacent areas. We now have families forced to travel all over the place just to find hockey because their local center was so good it attracted the top 13 players in the league. This will not help the sport grow, teams will change drastically year to year, no more hockey friends year over year.
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 4:35 pm The super team winning isn't the root of the issue. OMHA is broad areas, top tier players are willing to travel and play somewhere else, GREAT.
Eventually a local center fields a team with 0 local players on it, and all the local players will be making the teams in all the adjacent areas. We now have families forced to travel all over the place just to find hockey because their local center was so good it attracted the top 13 players in the league. This will not help the sport grow, teams will change drastically year to year, no more hockey friends year over year.
You are part of the problem that doesn’t recognize the issues the “local associations” create by offering crap programs year over year and exclude deserving kids who are not as “local” as your coach and “your” hockey friends.

It’s supposed to be about the kids, and if your coach and association can offer a quality program you won’t lose any kids. If you think you will 100% lose kids… guess what… your association, coach and culture probably suck.
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 4:35 pm The super team winning isn't the root of the issue. OMHA is broad areas, top tier players are willing to travel and play somewhere else, GREAT.
Eventually a local center fields a team with 0 local players on it, and all the local players will be making the teams in all the adjacent areas. We now have families forced to travel all over the place just to find hockey because their local center was so good it attracted the top 13 players in the league. This will not help the sport grow, teams will change drastically year to year, no more hockey friends year over year.
Once again, nobody is saying there shouldn't be limits on the amount of import players allowed on a roster
Guest

Re: OHF Opening borders??

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:13 pm
Guest wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 4:35 pm The super team winning isn't the root of the issue. OMHA is broad areas, top tier players are willing to travel and play somewhere else, GREAT.
Eventually a local center fields a team with 0 local players on it, and all the local players will be making the teams in all the adjacent areas. We now have families forced to travel all over the place just to find hockey because their local center was so good it attracted the top 13 players in the league. This will not help the sport grow, teams will change drastically year to year, no more hockey friends year over year.
Once again, nobody is saying there shouldn't be limits on the amount of import players allowed on a roster
If you add limit's then isn't is just more of the same? NRP's have limits and that's part of the problem we have now.

I can somewhat see where that post is going, center's will not be for local kids anymore. Perhaps locals need early protected registration to their home center so they always have a place to play. Centers will have to enforce their own player count cutoffs when registration opens for non resident players based on what their organization can handle with regards to number of teams/players. I'm sure centers with lower registration counts will start to stagger their tryouts so they can claim the cuts from other centers.. what a mess it will be.
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “2004 And Younger”